Closed Seasons?

Some states define fly-fishing as using a "fly-rod, fly-reel and flies". The use of a reel should not be a defining aspect of fly-fishing.
This forum is a place to share information about how certain states define "fly-fishing" for the purpose of "fly-fishing only" waters. And, if you contact a state for clarification, how would they treat tenkara? (e.g. Connecticut defines fly-fishing as using "fly-reel", one of our users, Mr. Hackney, contacted the Connecticut authority for clarification, and they said Tenkara IS fly-fishing, see more in first post).

Closed Seasons?

Postby Stan Wright » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:10 pm

Do you guys have fishing seasons where you live? If so, is it because of the weather or there is a time when certain fish can not be taken? If a river is Catch & Release, are there still times when fishing is not allowed?

As an example, in Hawaii, the rainbow trout fishing on Kauai is only open for a few weeks, then only open on weekends for a few more months. It's a Put & Take fishery and everyone takes home their limit. Fish have to be restocked for the next year.

We are trying to change the law so fishing can be "Catch & Release" for the rest of the year.
The problem is, the game wardens say they can't police the poachers if fishing is allowed year round. Now, with the closed season, any one caught with fishing gear is illegal and sited.
(The gill net and throw net bad guys are spoiling what could be some interesting year round trout fishing.)

The big reason... our government doesn't trust fisherman to release the fish they catch. But then releasing a fish, any size or type of fish is a foreign concept in Hawaii. The only reason most people fish here is to catch fish to eat... "it isn't fair to ask a person to release a fish they have caught". :shock: :shock: :shock:
( I get people every week asking me why I fish in the lake for bass because I can't keep and eat them.)
Why let the truth stand in the way of a good fish story.
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Re: Closed Seasons?

Postby rsetina » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:05 pm

Here in southern California we have year round fishing everywhere. There are a few creeks that are catch and release only but I catch and release all the time anyway. As we get farther north we start seeing closed waters from November 15 until the last weekend in April. Even between April and November we still have some catch and release only water which in my option make for a better fishery anyway.

The first thing I though when you said that the fish and game could't regulate the poachers was if you are carrying fishing gear it's going to be hidden when you're not fishing. They can't catch you if they don't know you have it. And if you're fishing they can see if you're keeping fish.

I guess it all comes down to the way it is here. Not enough wardens to cover the area they need to patrol. Hope you guys are able to change the law there.
Rick

テンカラ。小さなストリームのシンプルさ。
My Tenkara Rods:
13' Ayu, 12' Yamame, 11' with a conversion handle, and an Ito.

My Wife's Tenkara Rods:
12' Ebisu and 13.5' Amago, 12' Iwana with a conversion handle, and an Ito.
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Re: Closed Seasons?

Postby Stan Wright » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:17 pm

We're working on changes... your right, we don't have hardly any enforcement.

People are amazed that we have largemouth, small mouth, and peacock bass here in Hawaii. It would be great if tourists could fish for Hawaii rainbow trout too.
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Re: Closed Seasons?

Postby Owl Jones » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:03 pm

The following is my personal opinion, some of which is based on assumption. Just FYI.


Here in Georgia we have trout seasons. IMO, I believe it's because when Georgia first started stocking trout in it's northern waters, they wanted to keep a handle on it. They wanted to know what people were catching, and required anglers to check into and out of the new streams. I suppose that when they realized that this whole "trout fishing" thing would work; that is, the stocking of trout to create put-n-take fisheries, they decided to only allow it from spring to fall for economic reasons. Even today - even before the collapse of 2008 and lower tax revenues - the DNR here couldn't come up with the money to hire enough wardens to patrol the many, many (over 2000 miles) of trout streams we have in the state. So, in that regard nothing's changed since the late 60's. We have native "specs" here - southern appalachian brook trout - but when trout regulations are considered here in GA, they are considered with almost all of the thought going toward the put-n-take trout fishing "programs."

Anglers have debated regulations and seasons since I've been online and talking about fishing (around 1999 or so) and we do have a few special waters here. Two catch and release waters, no "fly only" water, and a handful of watersheds that are open year-round. When asked if fly fishers might some day get more catch-and-release water, or a fly fishing only stream, the DNR just laughed. They said " We'll never be able to do that, because of...tradition." In other words, like in HI, the people here have been catching and keeping fish for so long that the State of Georgia can't possibly ask them to give up perhaps a couple dozen miles of trout streams amid a couple thousand put-and-take rivers and creeks. It's absurd, but that's how it is.

As for the actual fishing, we now have ( by some miracle, or by sheer political embarrassment that NC, and TN's programs were already underway) a "DH" season from November to May. Fish are stocked (naturally. <-ironic, no?)and only single-hook artificial lures are allowed until May 14th each year. Still, there aren't enough LEO's to go around, so poaching is always a problem.

The answer is teaching children that keeping a few fish is ok, but keeping a limit every time you're out can at times be a bad idea, or worse - catching and keeping fish illegally is just wrong. That responsibility, however should fall to the parents of said children, and indeed it must - as the State is more concerned with stocking a new batch of rubber-fish for the people to catch out each week than they are teaching those people (and their children) who chase the stocking trucks each week a little about sportsmanship, ethics, stewardship, and fair chase. Again, not that it should be the state's place to teach such things...but then, by continuing to ignore the requests of anglers who want to see things get better, they're contributing to the problem as well as not being willing to confront it.

In short, 2000 miles of river with 1/20th of that(just a guess) year-round, and 1/100th of it special regulation water. We've got a long way to go here in GA, too and frankly I don't know what it will take to get us where we need to be.....
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Re: Closed Seasons?

Postby rsetina » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:07 pm

Sounds to me like every state has a long way to go and perhaps the only thing we can do is continue to do what we can to enlighten those who think the rules don't apply to them. Owl, you're right about parents being the front line to the problem of poaching and the practice of keeping fewer fish than what the law allows. That would do more to create better fisheries than any laws past by the law makers. Self regulation is the key.
Rick

テンカラ。小さなストリームのシンプルさ。
My Tenkara Rods:
13' Ayu, 12' Yamame, 11' with a conversion handle, and an Ito.

My Wife's Tenkara Rods:
12' Ebisu and 13.5' Amago, 12' Iwana with a conversion handle, and an Ito.
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Location: La Crescenta, CA

Re: Closed Seasons?

Postby Stephen McGowen » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:02 pm

I'd like to add an unpopular notion to the discussion.......Catching and eating fish is a normal part of the quest for protein and for survival. Most of the world's fisherman and their families eat their fish . They have to. There is no "season".
We rich, fat, sportsfisherman have come up with "catch and release" . We've turned a source of protein into pieces in a game that is a perversion of a natural order. And what are we trying to preserve ?.....stocked fish that can't make it through the winter in streams that are barely clean enough to support them.
I personally do not object to people poaching fish, stocked fish or not, if they are to provide for themselves or their families. Humans were once hunter/gatherers, many still are. A full belly once a day should be a human right.
Many of us C&R types equate killing a fish with "murder" and are astonished that folks don't "respect the fish." These same fish are the ones we have turned into swimming tennis balls in our C&R game. Is that respect?
It helps, every so often, to take off our polarized glasses and look at the real world......it ain't pretty.... but we must . Perhaps you'll feel this topic doesn't belong on a fishing blog and is not appropriate......... Sorry. I'd welcome an honest discussion.....thanks...over and out.
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Re: Closed Seasons?

Postby Stan Wright » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:56 pm

The problem is the refrigerator.
Let me explain. Yes, feed the family. As we use to say in the Navy...
"Take all you want, and eat all you take."

The Native Hawaiians tried that a few years ago on Molokai. The pre-contact Hawaiians were healthy. Fish, poi, sea weed, opihi, coconuts, veggies... Now days many Native Hawaiians suffer from disease and obesity directly connected to their "western diet".

In an "eat healthy" Hawaiian Diet program, part of the island was set aside for Hawaiian Only fishing and gathering if they would eat healthy. And it worked... There was enough fish to go around... in fact fish populations in that area skyrocketed. If you wanted or needed fish for dinner, you just went and caught it.

But then people started taking more fish than they could eat in a day or two and filled their refrigerator. Other people began taking more fish.... giving it away or selling it. There were so many fish, why not? Within a few months and the unrestricted use of gillnets...
all the fish were gone. Even using gillnets it was hard to catch enough to feed your family.
The program kind of fell apart.

In a Sportfishing vs Fish to Eat battle, let's look to Christmas Island. The only jobs on the island are working for the government, or tourist fishing. In the 1980's the island decided to try tourism (sport fishing) to boost their economy. Every week a plane load of fishermen from Hawaii brought back coolers and coolers of fish. We told them it wouldn't last... and it didn't. By 1991 the place was "fished out" and the tourist quit coming.

Then they discovered fly fishermen. Fly fishermen catch the bonefish and GT, take a picture, and turn it loose. The people and government on Christmas Island are now very protective of the Bones & GT. They set up No Fish, and Catch & Release areas inside the lagoon. Locals can, and do, take all the fish they want from the ocean, but are restricted in taking the GT and Bonefish from the flats in the lagoon. Since all of the 5000 or so island inhabitants benefit in some way from sport fishing.... and depend on fish for food, everyone wants to make sure there are plenty of fish to so around.
For the record, I think the fishing is better there today than it was on my first visits to the island in 1982.
Attachments
16 pounder (Small).JPG
My son Chris with a 16 pounder caught while whipping the flats at Christmas Island.
16 pounder (Small).JPG (46.17 KiB) Viewed 14099 times
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Re: Closed Seasons?

Postby Wupperfischer » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:09 am

Maybe hookless fishing is a solution :D :D :D :D :D
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/07/sports/outdoors-hookless-fly-fishing-is-a-humane-advance.html?src=pm

Paul Arden from sexyloops brought it to an further stage. Fishing only with mental casting.
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Re: Closed Seasons?

Postby Owl Jones » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:13 pm

Hookless fishing. Might as well have rod-less fishing, wader-less fishing, reel-less fishing...oh wait a minute there... ;)

I agree with much of what Stephen M says. However, I don't know why a full stomach should be a "human right" any more than nationalized healthcare. Steven, you kinda socked me for a loop with that, after most of your post was about the "natural" process. Does a cheetah have a right to a full belly every day? Why then a human? And who is to provide for this "right?"

I was with you til' the end...and then for me it went a bit wonky.

Fly fishing has been turned into a game. A wonderful, beautiful, artistic, addicting game. But the game should never be at the expense of those who would harvest fish to eat. Refrigerator or not. ( although I agree fully with that analysis too, not everyone who owns a 'fridge takes more than they can use)

I see no reason why this topic shouldn't be fishing forum fodder. It's nice once in a while to branch out from leaders and flies and tippets and sink our teeth into something more substantial. As long as it stays civil and no one tries to be funny ;), it should be an interesting discussion. Now, take back that remark about hookless fishing or I'll send you a dozen elk hair caddis with the biggest hooks you've ever seen!

( So I didn't take my own tongue-in-cheek advice. wazzzzz new? ;) )
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Re: Closed Seasons?

Postby Stan Wright » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:55 pm

:lol:
Can you imagine how much fun it would be if we all got together and went fishing
:lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol:
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